Is STEMCELL the only hope for ATAXIA?

Hi Sam

Please heed what the others have said. IT IS ALL A SCAM. They are trying to take advantage of vulnerable people who are ill and desperate and willing to shell out money for a "pipe dream". I read somewhere that people with neurological diseases are known as willing to spend vast amounts of money for promised cures, or even relief. Don't fall for it, you and your family will need every dollar you can get to live a relatively normal life now.

The truth is that there is NO cure, NO relief. There are some things that people are doing for themselves that might ease things a bit, things like cutting out sugar, chocolate or glutens, doing regular exercises, getting a lot of sleep. These things seem to be very individual and work for some but not others. I would really hate to see a fellow SCA sufferer being scammed out of his savings and left to try and survive as best he can, it is an utterly horrible thought and my heart really goes out to you. It is hard, and really horrible, going through what we have to, on this forum. We must just rely on each other for support, there really is nothing else.

I really wish you the best.

I agree with the writer (and also, Dic) Be very cautious about receiving treatment in countries that do not have strong regulatory protection. Stem cells are coming;they just aren't ready for our problems, yet. I am personally going to get a stem cell treatmeant myself (instad of surgery) for a torn rotator cuff. I notice that Rafael Nadal,one of the top five world best tennis players, is also getting a stem cell treatment for a nagging back problem. So, it is coming. Check out "nanofactor flow" for more info. about stemcell production and uses. My treatment will not be covered by insurance and will be $1,700. That is terribly hig, but it isnt $12,000.---Silky

breddersboy said:

I was under the impression that Stem Cells were not a cure but rather a regain of function due to the Cerebulum being regenerated and the Spinal Column being able to transmit better. However it is a band aid that does not get rid of the root cause. The affected cells are still there and will continue to degenerate. Not knowing your type of Ataxia is it maybe not correct of me to make such an assertion, but please remember that clinics like this rely on monies to exist. I have never heard of anyone being cured of any form of Ataxia using Stem Cells. I prefer to wait until RNAi is ready for prime time. Then they will be able to remove the root cause, the specific allele that is causing the repeat.
That is my lay mans view of things. Not being a Dr I may have been inaccurate in places but I think that the gist is there.

Dear Sam, I know you are desperate to find something to cure your ataxia. I know because I feel the exact same way! I was diagnosed with ataxia eleven years ago, although I had very small symptoms starting about eight years before. Years ago, I investigated stem cell treatment in places like China and India, but when I told my neurologist he stated that it's very early days for stem cell research. I also contacted the National Ataxia Foundation (NAF) and they said the same thing. This information made sense to me, as if it truly worked, we could get this therapy (FDA approved) in the USA also. Stem cells would have to cross the blood/brain barrier, therefore they'd have to go into the cerebellum to do any good (which they don't, as I believe they are injected into the spine), I imagine. Also, I think there's a placebo effect for some people initially, as I've read that some feel better for a while, but end up going back again for another round of treatment. Of course, you can spend their money any way they want to, I'm by no means not trying to burst your bubble. Just stating what I've heard and read! I wish you the best if you decide follow-thru with stem cell treatment! Please keep us posted..., ;o)

** Note only an observation -- NOT advice in any medical way **

Stem Cell Therapy needs ALOT more research, before it is undertaken indeed understood.

Most Neurologists have an opinion, most of which will echo the above.

As I understand any (SCT) treatment includes some sort of very intensive physio therapy, which leads many to believe that any sort of improvement will be because of this intensive PT. = which seems to rule out the SCT part of the treatment.

Also I have heard that patients who have otpted for SCT have only TEMPORARILLY seen any improvement in condition

and within some months are back to the same position, of their condition, before they started SCT = with pockets ALOT lighter/emptier.

Any decision is totally yours, but research then double research, BEFORE you embark on any transaction.

My dear friends,

I am overwhelmed with gratitude to see the support that you all have shown me in one of my weak moments. I will not rush into the therapy now. On an academic point of view I would like to put some doubts that I would like to find answers:

I understand that stem cells may be an answer for the future but the researchers are not there yet.Who is to decide that? FDA has no jurisdiction in India or China? During 8 years of Bush rule stemcell research was banned in US as it was considered against religion. That is when US, who was a leader in the research fell behind. We have always considered US as a gold standard in everything. How come China is slowly creeping closer? They must be doing some small things better than us. Recently India sent a flight that landed on Mars (First attempt) at a total budget of 80% that of the Movie "Gravity". Did anybody know about that in US?

Most Neorologists are not updated with the latest cutting edge research. And the last to know of developments in other countries. Can a US Doctor recommend a non FDA approved procedure? He will be sued by the patient next day.

As Lute has explained, the research papers presented by Neurogen Doctors are not of the best quality. I agree with that. They also have 6 books published, they also may not be of best quality. I also sat with a Indian friend of mine, understanding "Marhati" the local language spoken in Mumbai. We found atleast 10 full length interviews on TV of Neurogen Doctors and researchers(Not advertisements) on rare neurological illnesses and use of stemcells, and they did not look like peddling their services. His opinion was that institute was not a for profit institute. The Director Dr. Sharma (a neorological Surgeon) has done his initial research in the US. He is also Full professor in a Medical University.

Today early morning, I had my second conversation the Neurologist Dr. Nadini, at Neurogen. Here is a gist of it:

They give Stemcell therapy for needy (half the people) for around 2.5 K at only operating costs.(no Doctors fees)

The actual cost of the one week program all inclusive of diagnostic test, incl CT SCANs etc is 10K US. 2 K was an approximate for my travel to and fro from US.

As Lute mentioned she guaranteed that since the stemcells will be harvested from our own bone marrow, the chance of rejection does not arise. Also they are injected into the cerebrospinal fluid in the lumber area, hence there is no blood/brain barrier.

At present they are treating about 20 patients per week. About 8 Deluxe rooms are for foreigners and paying Indians. Foreigners are not charged any higher fee.

They have treated about 30+ ataxia patients. She said their observation is that after stemcell therapy the progression of ataxia slows down considerably, also the some of the cells are regrown, they need to be coached into doing the tasks which surrounding cells are used to do lifelong, hence the PT, OT, Speech T. As the cerebellum cells are rejuvenated they send signal for better blood circulation to the affected body, usually one side of body and as the body gets strengthened it also need therapy to be used properly. In short she said stemcells will only help you if you are ready to do the hard work also. Otherwise you are wasting your time and money. (This came from the Doctor herself).You do not get a placebo effect, and apart from feeling good about yourself, you cannot feel anything in a day or two. # to 6 month period is a good time frame to see some changes. You may or may not become like a normal person ,but condition will improve significantly. She also mentioned about basics of Yoga meditation breathing exercises.

I have told her I will call again and will have some more doubts. As I get more matter from all of you I will call her again. I still have more than a month to decide weather to keep the appointment or not. Till then a lot of research and contribution from all my friends is welcome.

Sam


Lute said:

Like the first poster, I have family in India. My family in India are doctors - psychiatrists and neurologists. When I told my cousin (a neurologist) that I have ataxia, she was very sympathetic, but as I mentioned on another thread, she didn't say "hey, we have some really promising experimental treatment over here, you must come and try it".

Beyond that: I am an epidemiologist. I have just now read the papers on Neurogen's website that seemed most relevant to SCA (i.e. incurable neurological conditions). The thing that struck me immediately was that a) all the treatments they mentioned were followed up by extensive physiotherapy and other neuro-rehabilitative treatment; and b) there was no control group in the studies. What that means is that it's entirely possible that any improved quality of life patients' experienced was due to placebo and/or the rehabilitative treatment, and had nothing to do with the stem cell treatment.

The point of the papers generally seems to be to prove that it's safe to do the treatments they propose, i.e. it's not going to make any patient any worse. That's an important step on the path towards proper clinical testing, but it's not proper clinical testing.

Those papers therefore provide pretty much the lowest type of evidence of treatment effectiveness. If I were writing a systematic review of the evidence provided by Neurogen that stem cell treatment can cure SCA (or indeed any of the other conditions they claim to treat) I would say there is exactly ZERO proof that their stem cell treatment has any effect on neurological conditions.

I know you really, really want this to be the answer, but please trust me when I say it's not.

There is some "Eastern" treatment that may help, but it's not medical. Lots of people find meditation and/or "mindfulness" help them accept things/changes in their life over which they have no control. But you don't need to spend $12K or go to India to learn either of these things.

It is a confidence game, Sam. If they have your confidence, it doesn't matter what research we come up with. Particularly if the idea is embedded that there is a medical conspiracy somehow preventing the cure being being put out there.

Sam, I agree entirely that there's no reason why the breakthrough for treatment has to come from the USA or the UK (or any other part of the English speaking world). Nor do I think FDA approval is the be-all and end-all, nor even necessarily the gold standard.

However, any breakthrough for treatment must, before it can claim to be effective, demonstrate that effectiveness through proper trials and published results.

If the clinic's success is as they claim, and since they're claiming to be effective for any type of SCA, it would not be difficult to do the necessary testing. They would need about double the number of patients (i.e. preferably at least 70) they've used for the safety tests, but in a country the size of India that shouldn't be so very difficult to find. Then they can give the treatment to half the group, and do exactly the same intervention for the other half of the group except not actually inject the stem cells. The PTs and doctors at the clinic doing the observations would also need to not know which patients were injected with stem cells and which not.

After about 18 months, if there's a statistically significant difference in objective measures of gait/vision/balance/whatever they're aiming to treat, between one group and the other, the treatment works. If there's not, it doesn't. It's not complicated.

To be ethical, if the treatment is found to be effective, you then give it to the half who didn't get the stemcell injection the first time round. That bit's a bit more difficult, because it means you can't do long-term follow up, but ethics are important.

Maybe the clinic is working on such a trial. If they are, it should be registered with a clinical trial register. You could ask them, and if they are, ask them where they're registered, and when they're likely to have results.

Thank you for your comments everybody. Lute you have given me some important questions to ask during my next call. Dancermom thanks for your advice.

Sam

I have heard of solumedrol but have been told that acetazolamide might help . I haven’t heard from anyone who has tried it but I am going to start it next week so I wil let you know if it helps.

this story is relevant to this topic: http://www.wheelchairkamikaze.com/2015/01/a-stem-cell-scam-unravels.html

Sam, any updates?

The "stem cell" dilemma is an interesting one! So many ins and outs to it, can be a bit overwhelming to say the least! Please, Sam, keep us posted...;o)

It is really hard to put these phony companies out of business, Corey. William Rader in Malibu was stripped of his medical license last year (he had been after a few of our members), but still is setting up patients in Mexico for 30K a patient: http://investorstemcell.com/stem-cell-research/malibu-psychiatrist-william-rader-continues-to-peddle-illegal-stem-cell-injections-at-30000/

The sad part is it taints legitimate stem cell research, which could really deliver sometime in the future.