My shrink believes that I have actually worsened my ataxia with my thoughts. Strange, cause I don't feel depressed. I am sad to have this pain-in-the-neck condition but he insists that I am depressed and put me on med. To be honest, if I never had ataxia, I would never see him. I can't see why talking about one's pecadillos in the past,or childhood, can lead to heightened ataxia. He is a psychiatrist. Bottom line: What feels like a physical thing, is in part, blamed on depression. Can this be? Are all ataxians depressed? Is depression being confused with sadness over lost skills? Are loss of skills being interpreted as depression? I mean if someone had/has incurable cancer, wouldn't it be "normal" for them to be sad? Does anyone have a similar experience??
I do think there is some truth in this as psychology does play a part but that’s different to psychiatry isnt it?
There is no doubt that I can move fast with my rollator without actually leaning on it. However if I lose my balance, I know I wont fall over. Without walking aids, my mobility is laboured and very tiring. I toddle.
It’s difficult to separate clinical depression from grief and frustration.
I do think there is some truth in this as psychology does play a part but that’s different to psychiatry isnt it?
There is no doubt that I can move fast with my rollator without actually leaning on it. However if I lose my balance, I know I wont fall over. Without walking aids, my mobility is laboured and very tiring. I toddle.
It’s difficult to separate clinical depression from grief and frustration.
Hi Neta, if that was true, then I have been depressed since birth. Ask him what is his thoughts on that. Please let me know what he says. If I were you I would see another Dr. best wishes.
Thanks for your responses. I think I should elaborate. He acknowledges that I have ataxia however his point is that I have overlayed it with a layer of depression and anxiety. I dont know the difference between psychiatry and psychology, to be honest. The shrink (a psychiatrist) has told me that for example studies,, famous ones, show that cardiac patients can die from depression and not a future heart event by not taking medication, eating right or exercising.He sees a functioning, walking, talking, travelling person (me) who thinks/acts like she has one foot in the grave, as he puts it.
I read early on that depression was a possible/probable effect from ataxia due to loss of ability. Like you I wonder if it isn't natural to grieve over a loss. My PCP told me just because it's an expected part of the ailment doenn't mean we don't treat it. My granddaughter had a baby this summer who only lived a few hours, they didn't waste any time giving her meds to cope with depression, It was expected in this case. How ever I was researching PBA yesterday and found that other things can mimic depression. There are subtle differences. I'm with you that it ought to be natural to grieve a loss of any kind--if it leads to clincal depression we just have to treat it as such.
First, I am sorry for your granddaughter's loss. My own daughter had a baby born very prematurely due to pre-eclampsiya suffered by the mother and undetected by the gynocologist. The baby survived but though sweet, he is not a regular kid. After a while the docs discovered that my daughter had a blood clotting disorder and her subsequent births were normal, thank God.l. I don't know that either she or her husband, who fainted when he heard what the doctors had to say the first time, took any anti-depressants. Maybe they should have; maybe they were sad but not depressed; maybe they were too distracted by the drama going on. Who knows. Overthe years, my daughter has expressed sadness and worry about her son's future but I think that is normal
Me. Now I have this ataxia business which I am told is relatively mild. But the neurologists I see, told me to see a psychiatrist regarding depression, which I am told, is a feature of ataxia. I dont know what clinical depression is exactly. Did I quit work? Yes. Do I feel like socializing? No. Do I volunteer somewhere? No. Do I keep the house tidy? Partially. Do I worry constantly? Yes. I don't know what is ataxia and limited abilitiesand what is so-called depression. The shrink says I read stuff (on this site for example) and believe I have those ailments too. What is PBA? .
granny h said:
I read early on that depression was a possible/probable effect from ataxia due to loss of ability. Like you I wonder if it isn't natural to grieve over a loss. My PCP told me just because it's an expected part of the ailment doenn't mean we don't treat it. My granddaughter had a baby this summer who only lived a few hours, they didn't waste any time giving her meds to cope with depression, It was expected in this case. How ever I was researching PBA yesterday and found that other things can mimic depression. There are subtle differences. I'm with you that it ought to be natural to grieve a loss of any kind--if it leads to clincal depression we just have to treat it as such.
PBA stands for something but it is basically uncontrollabe laughing or crying. What I could find about it, it can be related to neurological disorders. Stroke. MS, parkinsons, etc. I have small episodes of laughing mostly at bed time. My girls and I have always been prone to have a laughing spell when tired but since the ataxia I have them quite often, like I say a bedtime. Doc says its a problem when you weep uncontrollable when something is funny or laugh when others might cry over something.
Clinical depression is an imbalance of chemicals in the brain, I think it is something you have no control over yourself.
Hello Neta Your shrink in professing that you have a depression is totally wrong. You are sad-yes because the ataxia has led to this sadness. I maintain that the improvement of skills (and they can for certain be improved) would render even sadness for that matter to be absent.
I feel sad at my lost skills and little hope for the future.I have the same dilemma as you Neta.
Which came first the chicken or the egg.I have had a history of depression but have all the classic signs of Cerebellar Ataxia.Who would not feel depressed when you cannot walk,talk or write.
I feel better if I say it is a brain disease.With me it is just physical,not affecting the cognitive skiills.Depression is horrible and like Ataxia only another afflicted in the same way can understand.I can understand your questioning.I am in the same boat.I am not depressed but my thoughts are a bit negative as a result of having Ataxia.Not the other way around as your shrink seems to think.Let me know the outcome.I have been on meds for years and the Ataxia is worse.
I think that there is a link between our emotional well-being and ataxia. When I'm feeling down, self-conscious, upset, or even angry, I feel a lot worse. My hands shake more, my speech is more slurred, I'm much more likely to spill or drop things, and my arms and legs feel like jelly (more so than usual). I recognize that it's not actually my thoughts making the difference, and that it's probably because my concentration levels are affected or whatever, but it adds up to the same thing.
When I feel negative I don't push myself to do things, even everyday things that are normally a bit of a struggle. It's difficult to motivate myself, but if I don't do things my ataxia deteriorates. So I can see where the doctor is coming from. Because of the nature of ataxia we are prone to depression, which can make the ataxia worse... downwards spiral.
But it's wrong to assume that a person with ataxia is depressed or down. I don't like the "depression" label. I think that if someone is depressed they cannot cope with their negative feelings without help ( and I'm NOT implying it's to do with strength). That's the only way I can understand it anyway, because if someone has a degenerative disease, I think that someone is constantly grieving to an extent. .... I've just realised I've completely contradicted myself...
I think that 'sadness' and 'depression' are on a scale, they're not separate concepts. there's probably a line between them but (evidently) I have no idea where that line is.
"Depression" - usually a (permanent state) mental illness which can be genetic is sometimes an evil "buzzword" used to marginalize "Depressive"- (if Irish weather is anything to go by for 5mil. people).
I really agree with Willow. I imagine all people go thru some sort of depression upon hearing any thing other than a clean bill of health. I certainly did. Everyone mourns the life they used to have & the activites we used to be able to do. We mourn and then you move on and adapt.
Thanks for all your thoughts. Today was/is Yom Kippur in Israel and abroad. I went to synagogue in the blistering heat and I went twice! I was thinking alot about my query to you all, and thw thought actually crossed my mind to stop all contact with drs. But I am too 21st century for that! Ataxia, to me, is a very physical thing, like a broken leg and I can't see how is is a psychiatric condition. I think the shrink means that I have made a broken body out of the broken leg, Not sure, I will ask him again and report back. Thanks for your input. Let's hope for a better year, better times..
Hello, Neta,
Ataxia is a physical problem/ illness/ disease ( trying not to offend anyone here…:-), don’t know which word is the right one) . It can be seen with a scan, or an MRI.
Depression is a mental illness/condition. ( no offense to anyone one either! ) The signs of depression are not seen, but felt.
I believe that a physical, serious condition can bring in or worsen a mental problem. Who would not be affected when being diagnosed with cancer, heart disease, ataxia, Parkinson’s or anything else…? One could easily become depressed or develop anxiety or panic attacks, wouldn’t you think?
And then the vicious circle starts. The stress brought in for instance by panic attacks, could worsen a physical condition. Then the worsening of the physical condition can bring in more panic attacks…sometimes, the best way out if mental therapy fails, is medications.
Doctors are more and more looking into the mind-body relationship. The orientals have known this for hundreds of years and widely utilise yoga and meditation as part of their medical treatments.
Could depression make your ataxia worst? I do not know. May be this is what your psychiatrist meant, Neta.
By the way, a psychiatrist has a medical degree with a specialty in psychiatry and can prescribe medicines. A psychologist doesn’t not have a medical degree and cannot prescribe medicine. Both of course have studied psychology.
This means depression is felt DIRECTLY because of the changes.
The depression is NOT caused by thinking about the lack of skill that the ataxia brings about, but obviously the lack of skill won't make you happier.
This state of affairs has been suspected a long time and is now fully recognised. The technical name is Cerebellar Cognitive Affectctive Syndrome, CCAS for short.
In addition, people with cerebellar ataxia are particularly prone to alcoholism. The alcohol seems to make the intention tremor better. It does for a short time but shortly makes it worse and also the depression gets worse.
Avoid alcohol. Valium is better for the tremors but still not good.
I've had cerebellar ataxia since I had a cerebellar mini-stoke in my vermis when I was 14. The part of the cerebellum that deals with emotions is the midline (vermis) but ALL the cerebellum plays a part in intellect, emotion, and planning. The physical movement symptoms are obviously more visble to the onlooker.
Outbursts of inappropriate emotion such as fits of giggles are not uncommon among ataxians as well.
All the symptoms can be made better by the use of Frenkel Exercises. Not cured, but made better. They are free, need no special equipment , and just need effort (as much as you can put in).
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I am still unsure what to do with myself.. I do take medications for anxiety and depression. I never had either, for what is deemed a mild case of ataxia. (To me, it is not mild.) My shrink is not disputing the MRI and the fact that there is something wrong with my antibody count (hard, phyical proof) but he is claiming that I have made things worse with my poor attitude and depression and anxiety. I wake up in a cold sweat. Is this depression?
The truth? The mornings are the hardest for me emotionally but the best, physically Th nights are the best emotionally, during which I feel I can handle ataxia, but the hardest physically. Since I was at the synagogue yesterday, I saw many older people than me, who are in better shape. I think the uncertainty is a factor in the sense of panic. Everyone is talking about next year but I have no idea in what kind of shape I will be.
.
Cicina said:
Hello, Neta, Ataxia is a physical problem/ illness/ disease ( trying not to offend anyone here....:-), don't know which word is the right one) . It can be seen with a scan, or an MRI. Depression is a mental illness/condition. ( no offense to anyone one either! ) The signs of depression are not seen, but felt. I believe that a physical, serious condition can bring in or worsen a mental problem. Who would not be affected when being diagnosed with cancer, heart disease, ataxia, Parkinson's or anything else...? One could easily become depressed or develop anxiety or panic attacks, wouldn't you think? And then the vicious circle starts. The stress brought in for instance by panic attacks, could worsen a physical condition. Then the worsening of the physical condition can bring in more panic attacks...sometimes, the best way out if mental therapy fails, is medications. Doctors are more and more looking into the mind-body relationship. The orientals have known this for hundreds of years and widely utilise yoga and meditation as part of their medical treatments.
Could depression make your ataxia worst? I do not know. May be this is what your psychiatrist meant, Neta. By the way, a psychiatrist has a medical degree with a specialty in psychiatry and can prescribe medicines. A psychologist doesn't not have a medical degree and cannot prescribe medicine. Both of course have studied psychology.
Yes, my neurologist mentioned that depression can be a symptom of ataxia. I have no outbursts of anything or any cognitive (the way I always understood the word) troubles. The loss of skills or annoyance at the new me, has made me angry, frightened and worried. I am jealous of all the people (women) who are older than me and can do things like take their grandchildren out. Just recently, my five year old granddaughter ran to hug me and I almost fell over. I will only hold a baby from a seated position--- never standing. Will check out the Frenkel Exercises, thanks again
Brian1952 said:
Cerebellar ataxia changes the brain directly.
This means depression is felt DIRECTLY because of the changes.
The depression is NOT caused by thinking about the lack of skill that the ataxia brings about, but obviously the lack of skill won't make you happier.
This state of affairs has been suspected a long time and is now fully recognised. The technical name is Cerebellar Cognitive Affectctive Syndrome, CCAS for short.
In addition, people with cerebellar ataxia are particularly prone to alcoholism. The alcohol seems to make the intention tremor better. It does for a short time but shortly makes it worse and also the depression gets worse.
Avoid alcohol. Valium is better for the tremors but still not good.
I've had cerebellar ataxia since I had a cerebellar mini-stoke in my vermis when I was 14. The part of the cerebellum that deals with emotions is the midline (vermis) but ALL the cerebellum plays a part in intellect, emotion, and planning. The physical movement symptoms are obviously more visble to the onlooker.
Outbursts of inappropriate emotion such as fits of giggles are not uncommon among ataxians as well.
All the symptoms can be made better by the use of Frenkel Exercises. Not cured, but made better. They are free, need no special equipment , and just need effort (as much as you can put in).